I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. This one was different. https://www.youtube.com/watchv=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em&app=desktop. Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . I read somewhere that the church that bought, I think, the main campus property has a female pastor. Have you noticed the more scandals from some thugs they actually become more popular? Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. He. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! one passenger died. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. this is even a bigger bad root than the bad root of complimentarianism and authorityism. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. He screamed and swore. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. Thanks for that recommendation. Prayer Requests So I can see why some churches would want him on board. It does not mean that forgiveness is lacking. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. Most of all we want people to know that God loves and cares for them, the church said. Lydia on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:48 There was a box for Guest Services. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. In his case, trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. What am I saying? In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. He can be forgiven. LOL! These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? Then he stated emphatically: Now let me just say this to you today cause I have no apology for Mark being there; Im glad Marks here. Penalty Flag? Are you not voting? Youre not one of us. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. . In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. Driscoll has been more than a jerk, he has shown the inability to hold power without abusing it. Those who challenged him were openly chastised, disgracefully removed from membership and/or shunned until the organization he created finally said enough is enough and sent him packing (however, with a nice severance package). You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. Pastors that dont understand the devestation they cause by playing God in peoples lives, especially women and childrens lives, have no business calling themselves christians and certainly shouldnt be in positions where people might think they are speaking for God Himself when they tell them how to live. That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. Its really big in Charismatic/Pentecostal circles I think mainly because they are more predisposed to bad behavior (think TBN and Daystar whackos). i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. @ sam: The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. The opposition is to Jesus. If he is serious about ministry then he needs to stay away from those circumstances which enable him to get into trouble-money, power and the pulpit. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. GW used to require people to take a class and understand the commitment but they couldnt keep their salvation numbers up without the spontaneous element that include giving away free clothes and smart little swag bags for those willing to dunk for the cameras. Pouring? The carpet was worn. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. He made a lucrative living and lived what I would call a lavish lifestyle (higher standard of living than every single person in my church, for example), and he did it all with Jesus. Mark Driscoll has shown that hes capable of inflicting a lot of damage on many people. Thats right, the head pastor no less! They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. Driscoll, IMHO, is completely unsuited for any position of authority. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. I also dont think he should work or earn profit in any manner making money off Jesus (such as selling Christian books, pod casts, site subscriptions, accepting speaking fees to appear at churches, etc). I would hope we should higher standards than that. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. Same goes for singles. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. Sopy COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. An event of this magnitude, indoors and in such close proximity, combined with case numbers where they are and our hospitals full, could be devastating, he said. Barnabus is described as a good man and full of the Holy Spirit. Im fairly certain MD would enjoy being categorized with a so called revolutionary. from dictionary: He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. He has lots of pics holding impoverished babies while his own 5 kids barely saw him. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. Sorry, I dont know why I wrote that, Ive always thought of you as a him. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. A cult expert I spoke at length with said it may be harder to find the right one, but a smaller church is the way to go. Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. I believe they were simply behaving as their normal selves. AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. It is ok to ask for openess and transparancy. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas He should not be making a buck off Jesus in any way, shape, or form, IMO. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. Even his outrageous speak was a game where he would then delete then repent then do againshampoo, rinse, repeat. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. Somebody cited a study that the most common characteristic of a Sociopath (well over 90%) was successfully Playing the Victim Card when caught. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. And so on. Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. . If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. vengance is where you make someone pay. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? . Im so used to the megas Velcro bars where they only care about you if they can slap some Velcro on you to make you come back so you can become a tithe payer. I think they have handled it with great PR and it is working. For more information about James River Church and to get connected, click the link below! What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. Ches rise and fall occurred before I was born so Id sincerely appreciate any insight and correction. -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. sam wrote: He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. Sometimes life circumstances have to kind of help people do the right thing. I dont feel I HAVE to agree with you. Years ago, he spoke from the pulpit against the expansion of casino gambling in Missouri. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. If we were after money we would need to time our exit before Driscoll pulled the roof in again. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. Driscoll was never really qualified to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the first place he proved that time and time again by his un-Christlike behavior in word and action. I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father, but through Me -Jesus, all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!. Just volunteers. I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on Sundays. The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. There are some Calvinists who go in the opposite direction and are very humbled by their monergistic view of salvation. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. . The youngest generation may be leaving the church in record numbers but at least they have a fighting chance of finding the real God later. Above all he had that coveted edginess he wore age and occupation inappropriate t shirts and chunky jewelry on the pulpit. I hope others will join in at places like this blog and help shed light on local megas in their area. I didnt feel pressured. They just want to give us a little more time and "context" to receive the brilliance. stephen is going to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (mark doesnt say that stephen was already filled with the Holy Spirit, the bible doesnt mention stephen being filled at that time at all) pure in heart shall see God. Working at James River is never be boring because of the mission that you are pursuing and the amazing things that you get to be a part of. I think many. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. He screamed and swore. At a certain level they wanted leaderless teams who would function by consensus. It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. *carefully targeting pastors who want to build an empire of their own with an easy publicity stunt (although described Christian-like so it actually sounds noble, in both marketing and in the buying pastors self-talk), @ LT: Who cares about that pesky truth so long as there are clean bathrooms, great hot coffee and rockin worship? How can they do that? Albuquerque Blue wrote: The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. Oh no. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. You will hear the Velcro bar/connect center mentioned several times in each service. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. until he says otherwise what else can a person think? Yes, thanks for this. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? I would think that rehabilitation for him would be finding a job where he was not the boss and not the teacher. He is a draw. I noted in my comments on the petition that Driscoll still hasnt repented before all and specifically to the people whose lives he damaged, such as former Mars Hill elder/attorney Paul Petry, a godly, decent man. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. From my perspective, the problem with Driscolls repentance is the same as the problem with the Chandler apology. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. pastor says: All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. I am also pretty sure the accounts of his instrumental role in bringing Russian nuclear-armed ballistic missiles to Cuba to be used against the US were not purely fabricated, so I did not believe I was disseminating false information at the time I wrote that. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm None of them see anything wrong with this. Christians have to be different than that. Then you can better understand the depths of this deception. @ sam: have caused me to go into a major identity crisis, what i thought were well meaning however slightly misguided churches and some of the right wing christian patriots are not who or what i thought they were. How can a reasonable person look past that? 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. This was a new song to me. Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. When Robert brags about lunching with Greg Abbott, golfing with George W Bush or being Rick Santorums spiritual advisor, it makes me feel ill.